Cardinal Mahony speaks with NCR
Dec 05, 2007
Los Angeles is the capital of the world's
entertainment industry, and since 1985 the Catholic church there has been led by a figure seemingly made for Tinseltown: Cardinal Roger Mahony, 71, perhaps the most media-savvy American bishop (among other things, Mahony is an Internet adept) and something of a cultural celebrity in his own right.
Cardinal Mahony speaks with NCR
All Things Catholic by John L. Allen, Jr.
Friday, November 30, 2007 - Vol. 7, No. 13
Los Angeles is the capital of the world's
entertainment industry, and since 1985 the Catholic
church there has been led by a figure seemingly made
for Tinseltown: Cardinal Roger Mahony, 71, perhaps the
most media-savvy American bishop (among other things,
Mahony is an Internet adept) and something of a
cultural celebrity in his own right. The latest
confirmation came earlier this month with the
publication of a novel, billed as "reality fiction,"
by American Catholic writer Robert Blair Kaiser titled
Cardinal Mahony. In the novel, the Los Angeles prelate
is kidnapped by a group of liberation theologians from
Latin America, put on trial in Mexico (after being
spirited away in his own helicopter), and converted to
the need for sweeping reform. The fictional Mahony
apparently ends up leading American Catholics in
demanding what the book's publisher describes as
"citizenship in their church."
I bumped into Mahony in the Vatican's Synod Hall on
Nov. 23, waiting for a meeting of the College of
Cardinals with the pope. He said he had read most of
the novel during his flight to Rome; asked for a
reaction, he simply laughed.
As is often the case with celebrities these days,
Mahony is also dogged by his share of controversy.
Recently, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles concluded
what will almost certainly be the largest single
settlement related to the American sexual abuse crisis
-- a $660 million payout, shared by the archdiocese,
most religious orders sued in California (with the
exception of the Salesians), and insurance carriers.
That amount reflects not only the size and wealth of
the archdiocese, but also a 2002 California law
temporarily suspending the statute of limitations on
civil lawsuits against private organizations whose
personnel abused children. The settlement closes some
500 claims at roughly $1 million each. The process of
collecting more than 700 signatures to finalize the
settlement was completed in mid-November.
On Monday, Nov. 26, Mahony sat down in Rome for an
interview with NCR to discuss the settlement, the
legacy of the sexual abuse crisis, Pope Benedict XVI's
trip to the United States in April 2008, and the
consistory itself. The full text of that interview is
available in the Special Documents section of
NCRonline.org. The following are excerpts. I also
filed daily reports during the consistory, which can
be found here: http://ncrcafe.org/blog/2682
NCR: You've just concluded a $660 million settlement
in Los Angeles designed to end your litigation related
to the sexual abuse crisis. Do you feel a sense of
relief?
Mahony: I don't look at it that way. Having met with
dozens and dozens of victims, over 70 so far, I
believe the closure of this is important for them. I
didn't realize how much more they'd been through, even
by filing lawsuits. They had to fill out claimant
questionnaires and say all kinds of things about their
personal lives. Their attorneys asked them to do
videos of their experience. They've had to bare their
souls, which for many of them reopened the past. Most
of them see the settlement as the last time they'll
have to go through all this.
Secondly, they see the settlement, as I do, as a
ratification that they were harmed. This is a public
acknowledgment that they were harmed. Even though the
language of the settlement may not use the terms
"fault" and "no fault," it is a ratification, an
acknowledgement by the church, that you were harmed.
While money doesn't resolve the past, it is an
acknowledgement, and I think that's very important for
them.
There are those who charge that you spent $660 million
to save yourself the personal embarrassment of sitting
in the witness box during a jury trial. How do you
respond to that?
First of all, I respond with a very big smile. Part of
our strategy, and our settlement judge knew this all
along, is that the only way to get insurance companies
to settle is if it would cost them more not to settle.
The only way that can happen is to get a verdict from
a jury. Therefore, we purposefully chose cases with
huge coverage amounts and went to the court, more than
a year ago, and got them set for trial. People say
we're afraid of a trial? We're the ones who got the
cases set for trial. We wanted them set for trial. It
was that date approaching that broke things loose.
In fact, the day we had the formal presentation of the
settlement in court -- Monday, July 16 -- was the date
the first trial was to start. A week before that, the
insurance guys wanted no part of this [settlement].
The judge met with them all and said, 'Well, if you
don't want to participate and you want to go to trial
next Monday, I would suggest you go home and get ready
for trial. There's no sense sitting around here.'
The judge dismissed them and left the courtroom. They
didn't leave. The bailiff came back later and told the
judge, 'You know those guys you sent home? They're all
still here.' He let them sit for an hour or two. In
the end, they blinked.
Secondly, with respect to me testifying, 95 percent of
the cases occurred before I came, and I would have
very little to say. In fact, the first case concerned
a fellow who was ill when I arrived and died within my
first year. I wouldn't be able to tell them anything
about it. Actually, I was looking forward to it,
because I was going to use the opportunity to explain
what we've done to make sure this doesn't happen
again. I had no problem with testifying.
As matter of church law, alienation of property
requires approval of the Holy See. Specifically, it
goes to the Congregation for Clergy, and, for
settlements related to sexual abuse, also Secretariat
of State. What has your experience been in dealing
with the Vatican?
They've been extremely supportive. Of our total
settlement, we've only needed to get permission to
alienate $200 million. [The rest of the $660 million
will come from insurance companies, religious orders,
and internal borrowing.] I've just come from a meeting
in the Congregation for Clergy to discuss it.
Would you say the Vatican has been on a learning
curve?
Some [in the Vatican] get it, and some don't. I would
say that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith and the Congregation for Clergy people get it.
Perhaps it's because those two offices have been on
the front lines of the crisis -- the CDF for the
doctrinal and disciplinary issues, and Clergy for the
money?
That's right. Cardinal Hummes particularly has been
extremely helpful. [Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes
is Prefect of the Congregation for Clergy.] Cardinal
Rodé also has been very helpful. [Slovenian Cardinal
Franc Rodé is Prefect of the Congregation for
Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of
Apostolic Life, popularly known as the Congregation
for Religious.] He gave us the key principle this past
May. He said the religious institutes must bear full
responsibility for their members, and the dioceses for
their members. He said that's the only formula that's
going to work, and that's the formula we've been
following.
Some of the other folks, in some of the other offices,
the ones from whom we had the most skepticism, are now
happily retired!
Shifting gears, what do you think the importance of
Pope Benedict XVI's visit to the United States next
April will be?
It will be the first time the American people see him
a bit more up-close. Of course, it will depend in part
on what he has to say.
What message will you be looking for?
I would hope that he would recognize the vitality of
the church in the United States, particularly the
vitality of parish life. I hope he'll talk about lay
involvement, lay leadership, and lay ministry -- as a
plus, a real plus … (laughs) as opposed to that
document from the eight dicasteries! [The reference is
to a 1997 Vatican document issued by eight Vatican
offices raising concerns about lay ministry.] I hope
he acknowledges that this is where the church is
growing, and that we're going in the right direction.
I maintain that this is why we're not Italy or France
or someplace else, because we've been able to do that.
John Paul II acknowledged that all the time, so I hope
Benedict will emphasize that.
I think it's also important to acknowledge the faith
of our people, especially during the six or seven
years of this crisis. Our people have remained so
faith-filled. They realize that the church is not
about perpetrators of sexual abuse, it's about Jesus
Christ and his abiding presence with the church.
That's the core. It's not about us people along the
way or various segments of history, it's the presence
of Christ. I've been in awe of the faith of our
people, the way that they've rallied around their
priests and been so supportive of their priests in the
parishes. … I think the Holy Spirit does that for us.
Do you think Benedict XVI will have to address the
sexual abuse crisis?
Oh, absolutely. I think it's a unique opportunity for
him to do that. He's got to. He cannot avoid that.
Where he does it, I'm not sure. I would hope he says
something in both his homilies to large gatherings of
the Catholic faithful, not just the meeting of the
bishops. That isn't going to be helpful. I think he
needs to say something in the public arena to our
people. I think he needs to make it clear that he
understands.
I must say, I think he does [understand]. He was most
helpful at the CDF in getting things changed that we
needed changed. So, I'm hoping that in those two
arenas, he'll say something. [Benedict XVI is expected
to celebrate public Masses in Nationals Stadium in
Washington, D.C., and Yankee Stadium in New York.]
You took part in the business meeting of the College
of Cardinals with the pope, devoted largely to the
issue of Christian unity. Did you hear anything new?
I thought that Cardinal Kasper's report was a good
overview of where we are. … He pointed out where the
obstacles and challenges remain. What I found
fascinating was that the cardinals were all into this
topic. I think at first some thought that Kasper would
gave his report, then there'd be a comment or two, and
then there would be other issues. Actually, basically
the whole day, even the evening, was all on this.
As I listen to both ecumenical experts and bishops, it
seems that a gradual shift has been taking shape away
from focusing primarily on theological dialogue,
toward more practical cooperation on socio-cultural
concerns. Does that seem right?
Absolutely. Just to give you one vivid example in the
archdiocese, in the inner city we have a large Central
American parish, St. Thomas the Apostle. Right next to
it is Santa Sophia, the Los Angeles cathedral for the
Greek Orthodox. Recently we had an arson fire at St.
Thomas the Apostle, and it was closed for almost a
year. The fire was on Friday night, and the next
Sunday I went to celebrate Mass in the parking lot
with the parishioners. You know who was there? The
[Orthodox] pastor from next door, along with the Greek
Orthodox Archbishop from San Francisco, who came down
for the Mass. They loaned their facilities to the
parish. It was just phenomenal.
I joked with the archbishop, saying, 'If you and I
wanted, we could just declare unity and let the folks
in Istanbul and Rome figure it out. We could deal with
them later!' The fact is, we do so much together on so
many fronts.
How did you find the pope?
I found him very alert. As usual, the way he can sum
up everything at the end of a session is just
incredible. He listens, he's obviously taking notes.
At the end of the morning and evening sessions, he
gave a few points that captured the discussion well.
He didn't announce any new ecumenical initiative?
No. There were some suggestions from cardinals that
perhaps we need another summit.
You mean like the inter-religious summits in Assisi
under John Paul II, this time for other Christian
bodies?
Yes, but nobody really thought we're ready for that at
this point.
The e-mail address for John L. Allen Jr. is jallen@ncronline.org
Cardinal Mahony speaks with NCR